Oh yeah - so I saw Donnie Darko this weekend. I admit, I missed the first 15 minutes or so, but even so: What the f*** was that all about? I totally didn't get it. It was oddly compelling, but, like I say, totally didn't get it.
Missing the beginning is kind of crucial. He's stuck in a time loop, is my theory, and the end is the beginning is the end... ugh! I quoted Smashing Pumpkins.
Or something like that. It's all to do with the theory of wormholes through time that is referred to in the movie, when Donnie reads the book by the crazy lady. It's ages since I watched it, though, so I can't remember my brilliant and entirely correct theory. *sigh* I can't even remember at what point the plane engine falls on the house. When is that?
All the summaries were different though! *cries* I think I need to buy the directors cut 2 disk DVD with the commentary, and then maybe they'll *explain* it all, and then (only then) I will understand.
Oh... I think it's the director's cut that I have. Maybe that's how I was able to come up with a working theory. Of the theories I linked to, I think the bottom one is best. Don't cry. :(
Maybe so. It sounds like the best way of making sense of it all. That and rewatching the thing again. I thought the bottom theory sounded best, but it also sounded confusing. Mind you, everything is confusing me this afternoon. I personally blame Joss Whedon. I'm listening to the OMWF soundtrack and it's melting my brain.
I've seen the film about 5 times, including the director's cut twice. My theory is, it's about time travel and paradoxes, which means you aren't meant to "get it" completely. And I reckon anyone who says they do get it has either missed the point entirely, or is lying. However, the way I see it is, the plane's engine goes through the wormhole and kills Donnie but, since the plane doesn't actually crash until a month later, it distorts reality, and so he is able to survive, in an alternate universe, until the engine loss actually takes place. Frank and the seeing into the future are a side affect of the time travel. The excerpts from Roberta Sparrow's book in the director's cut are about "tangent universes" and how people are affected by them.
I have a friend who said he got it, and his explanation was that the engine doesn't kill Donnie but then he chooses to travel back in time and die in order to save Gretchen. I don't agree - because then Donnie would have to find some way of getting to the wormhole, rather than watch the pretty storm with Gretchen dead in the car beside him.
I'm a little hesitant to watch the director's commentary, because I think they might give an explanation I don't like, thus spoiling the appeal of the film. At the moment, every time I watch it I feel the need to watch it again straight after. I agree it's very compelling.
Okay. That makes sense. I like that theory. I can work with that.
I know what you mean about not wanting to watch the commentary in case they spoil your idea of it though. For now I think I'll adopt your theory, and when I watch it again (sans commentary) I'll see how it all makes sense. And if I still feel confused, then it's commentary time. *g*
And I reckon anyone who says they do get it has either missed the point entirely, or is lying.
Or has a theory, as you do?
I haven't seen it in ages so I may be off-base, and I know it's impossible to be certain (sans commentary), but how do you explain that sort of pleased smile he has at the beginning? That has always made me believe that Donnie had some sort of control over it, as if he was pleased his plan worked, or he was pleased he hadn't been killed by the engine. Otherwise, it's odd to think that someone would be pleased to find themselves waking up in the middle of the road. Of course, this would imply that he'd been through it before (each time differently, and hazily remembered?) and I'm not sure about that. I did have a theory that it was a sort of loop in time, and I saw the rabbit as possible proof of that - Donnie sees him in his mind before he sees him in 'reality', suggesting that he had seen him 'before'.
If he has control over the time travel to any extent, he may have been able to choose to save Gretchen.
However, I realise that it's entirely possible I'm misinterpreting both smile and rabbit. I'd really have to watch it again even to properly remember my own ideas about it.
I love hearing new theories of Donnie Darko, though. I think it's indicative of its excellence that there can be so many working theories.
See, *I* think that he woke up smiling in the road just because it was ridiculous. No one seemed to be surprised that he was waking up in strange places. He'd been doing it, again and again. Maybe this particular morning, maybe others.
My basic theory (after having the Dir.'s cut on my computer and watching it compulsively) is kind of like you said: he was intentionally caught in a loop. Almost like Groundhog Day, except not. He had to figure out the right sequence of events before he could keep his mom and sister from dying in an airline crash, shooting frank in the eye, gretchen getting run over, etc., etc. He experimented with shit along the way, and generally just didn't give a fuck. Which made it fun to watch (for me). And I love the physics/psuedophysics angles of it, as well as Roberta Sparrow, who I think did a little too much experimentation with time travel.
Anyway, I love that movie. Dan hated it. We both "got it" but I really loved it.
I guess it depends how you define "getting it". I have a theory of the basic mechanics of what is happening, but have no idea what the point is.
I think the smile is just an indication of Donnie's derranged state of mind - it's a crazy smile. No one is surprised that he's been sleepwalking, so I guess it's something he does often.
I can't imagine that he has control over what is happening, partly because of some of the book passages, and partly because, if he had control, he could prevent Gretchen's death in any number of ways. Dying himself isn't one of them, because Gretchen could easily be killed by her step-father if she doesn't have Donnie's house to retreat to. If he had control, the only sensible thing would be to prevent her death by not going after Frank, and instead find a way to prevent the plane taking off. (Incidentally, his mother and sister don't necessarily die anyway. The plane could lose an engine and still make it through the storm and land relatively safely.)
Argh! I need to go and watch it again. I'm thinking so hard I'm finding the flaws in my own argument. Basically, if it is a loop, and it is voluntary, dying is the worst way of helping everyone. He'd want to loop again and do things right.
Firstly, cool that you agree re the loop. The more I think back on the movie the more sure I am of that. How else would he know the exact time the world would end?
He had to figure out the right sequence of events
Yep. Not in the same sense as Groundhog Day, but he does it anyway. His death saves Gretchen's life, and I think we can safely assume that his sister won't be flying anywhere with Sparkle Motion so soon after his death, and so he saves his mother and sister as well.
But if he is in a loop, I think I'm right about the smile. He's saying, "Here we go again!" But do you think he remembers everything about previous loops, or do you think his memory of them is incomplete? Because he can't explain Frank until the end, even though, if he's looping, he must have seen him before.
First off, I love that movie. I can't explain everything, but I'll offer my observations.
Donnie was supposed to die in the engine crash in the beginning. Fate was fucked. An AU is created around his survival.
He realizes there's something "off" about his world, which can at first be attributed to his over-medication. He acts out because he's cheated death, and no other potential consequences come close to what he's already faced. Then, as he starts realizing just how unreal his world is, when he should be getting more detached, he keeps making emotional connections with the people around him. His role in their lives eventually ends up damning them all.
When time loops back to the events at the beginning, he doesn't move from his bed as it falls. The tangent universe ceases to exist.
That sounds reasonable. I definitely think I need to see it again though, so see which of these theories works for me, or maybe to develop my own. It sounds like seeing the beginning would help.
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(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 02:27 pm (UTC)Or something like that. It's all to do with the theory of wormholes through time that is referred to in the movie, when Donnie reads the book by the crazy lady. It's ages since I watched it, though, so I can't remember my brilliant and entirely correct theory. *sigh* I can't even remember at what point the plane engine falls on the house. When is that?
This could help though. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0246578/plotsummary
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 02:38 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 02:41 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 02:46 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 02:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 02:39 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 02:44 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 03:18 pm (UTC)I have a friend who said he got it, and his explanation was that the engine doesn't kill Donnie but then he chooses to travel back in time and die in order to save Gretchen. I don't agree - because then Donnie would have to find some way of getting to the wormhole, rather than watch the pretty storm with Gretchen dead in the car beside him.
I'm a little hesitant to watch the director's commentary, because I think they might give an explanation I don't like, thus spoiling the appeal of the film. At the moment, every time I watch it I feel the need to watch it again straight after. I agree it's very compelling.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 03:24 pm (UTC)I know what you mean about not wanting to watch the commentary in case they spoil your idea of it though. For now I think I'll adopt your theory, and when I watch it again (sans commentary) I'll see how it all makes sense. And if I still feel confused, then it's commentary time. *g*
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 03:41 pm (UTC)Or has a theory, as you do?
I haven't seen it in ages so I may be off-base, and I know it's impossible to be certain (sans commentary), but how do you explain that sort of pleased smile he has at the beginning? That has always made me believe that Donnie had some sort of control over it, as if he was pleased his plan worked, or he was pleased he hadn't been killed by the engine. Otherwise, it's odd to think that someone would be pleased to find themselves waking up in the middle of the road. Of course, this would imply that he'd been through it before (each time differently, and hazily remembered?) and I'm not sure about that. I did have a theory that it was a sort of loop in time, and I saw the rabbit as possible proof of that - Donnie sees him in his mind before he sees him in 'reality', suggesting that he had seen him 'before'.
If he has control over the time travel to any extent, he may have been able to choose to save Gretchen.
However, I realise that it's entirely possible I'm misinterpreting both smile and rabbit. I'd really have to watch it again even to properly remember my own ideas about it.
I love hearing new theories of Donnie Darko, though. I think it's indicative of its excellence that there can be so many working theories.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 04:07 pm (UTC)See, *I* think that he woke up smiling in the road just because it was ridiculous. No one seemed to be surprised that he was waking up in strange places. He'd been doing it, again and again. Maybe this particular morning, maybe others.
My basic theory (after having the Dir.'s cut on my computer and watching it compulsively) is kind of like you said: he was intentionally caught in a loop. Almost like Groundhog Day, except not. He had to figure out the right sequence of events before he could keep his mom and sister from dying in an airline crash, shooting frank in the eye, gretchen getting run over, etc., etc. He experimented with shit along the way, and generally just didn't give a fuck. Which made it fun to watch (for me). And I love the physics/psuedophysics angles of it, as well as Roberta Sparrow, who I think did a little too much experimentation with time travel.
Anyway, I love that movie. Dan hated it. We both "got it" but I really loved it.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 04:58 pm (UTC)I guess it depends how you define "getting it". I have a theory of the basic mechanics of what is happening, but have no idea what the point is.
I think the smile is just an indication of Donnie's derranged state of mind - it's a crazy smile. No one is surprised that he's been sleepwalking, so I guess it's something he does often.
I can't imagine that he has control over what is happening, partly because of some of the book passages, and partly because, if he had control, he could prevent Gretchen's death in any number of ways. Dying himself isn't one of them, because Gretchen could easily be killed by her step-father if she doesn't have Donnie's house to retreat to. If he had control, the only sensible thing would be to prevent her death by not going after Frank, and instead find a way to prevent the plane taking off. (Incidentally, his mother and sister don't necessarily die anyway. The plane could lose an engine and still make it through the storm and land relatively safely.)
Argh! I need to go and watch it again. I'm thinking so hard I'm finding the flaws in my own argument. Basically, if it is a loop, and it is voluntary, dying is the worst way of helping everyone. He'd want to loop again and do things right.
My head hurts. :(
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 04:16 pm (UTC)He had to figure out the right sequence of events
Yep. Not in the same sense as Groundhog Day, but he does it anyway. His death saves Gretchen's life, and I think we can safely assume that his sister won't be flying anywhere with Sparkle Motion so soon after his death, and so he saves his mother and sister as well.
But if he is in a loop, I think I'm right about the smile. He's saying, "Here we go again!" But do you think he remembers everything about previous loops, or do you think his memory of them is incomplete? Because he can't explain Frank until the end, even though, if he's looping, he must have seen him before.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-08 11:30 pm (UTC)Donnie was supposed to die in the engine crash in the beginning. Fate was fucked. An AU is created around his survival.
He realizes there's something "off" about his world, which can at first be attributed to his over-medication. He acts out because he's cheated death, and no other potential consequences come close to what he's already faced. Then, as he starts realizing just how unreal his world is, when he should be getting more detached, he keeps making emotional connections with the people around him. His role in their lives eventually ends up damning them all.
When time loops back to the events at the beginning, he doesn't move from his bed as it falls. The tangent universe ceases to exist.
(no subject)
Date: 2005-08-09 06:26 am (UTC)